578. On the Ideal Orator 3 by James May and Jacob Wisse.- Summary

578.  On the Ideal Orator 3 by James May and Jacob Wisse.

Cicero gives background to setting.  This conversation took ten days before Crassus died.  Cicero here as with anything he ever touched showed impressive skill at narrative.  He gives us a taste here of what a fine historian he would have made.  The manner in which Crassus stood up to Philippus when he belittled the Senate makes me wish I could have known him.

Crassus in Senate meeting:  If you want to force Crassus into compliance, it is not those pledges you must destroy; you will have to cut out this tongue of mine- and even when that has been torn out, the freedom in my breath will check your wanton license.

Back to discussion.

Crassus lays out a general principle:  nothing in the world can exist on its own, if severed from all other things.  Words and content are inseparable.

There is one oratory but many fine and equal but very different orators.  Again as in De Officiis Cicero realizes that all of us are different.

If there are so many orators, so many types of speaking, can same rules and methods apply to all?  Yes, because all must use words with care and note sound, placement, order of thought, etc.

Now he discusses correct Latin.  Orator must use words which can not be criticized, must follow proper grammatical use, control the tongue, the breath, the source of sound, do not over articulate letters nor be too lazy.

Refinement in choice of words:  acquired by theory, taught by grammar and reinforced by daily practice in reading and speaking.  He recommends cultivating the accent in Rome.

In the following Crassus talks not about proper language but gives in the process a reason why Greece lost political prominence:  at one time the speaker of words, the doer of deeds were one and the same.  These were separated by increasing interest in delving into subject too heavily at the expense of the state.  The best minds began to go in this direction.  Socrates who himself possessed great speaking skill used his powers to mock oratory.  At one time wisdom was defined as combining thought and power of expression.  Crassus rejects the Epicureans because the leisure which they advocate for the garden, if successful would deprive the state of those minds necessary to insure that those who choose the garden can indeed enjoy the pleasure.  He rejects the Stoics as s too stern politically oratorically and socially.  The power of Aristotle/Carneades is to be sought.  But Crassus seems to stop short of full embrace because after Socrates wisdom and eloquence were made distinct.  Crassus says that the real power of oratory embraces all that applies to every aspect of humanity.  Experience in the forum is essential for value of studying philosophy to be useful.

The active practice of a subject is an endless thing, but acquainting yourself with it is easy, if you fortify theoretical learning with experience, devote an average amount of effort to it, preserve the memory of what you have learned and maintain your enthusiasm.

Do not take greater interest in the subject than the subject requires- do not over do it, to the expense of duty to country.

Here are the last two parts of oratory (lst- pronunciation, 2nd clarity):

speak with distinction
suitably

Speak with distinction

Use an interesting analogy- No one can take sweet food or drink for too long.  Here is another:  New paintings do not delight us very long, but our interest is kept by the fine patina of ancient paintings.  What impacts our senses deeply gets old quickly.

Thus distinctive passages should be random in the same way that garlands and lamps are set out when public areas are decorated for festivals.

Crassus urges orator to develop ability to argue both sides of an issue.  He virtually says that it is duty of statesmen to discuss both side s of an issue- this is of course a technique from Peripatetics.  But Crassus notes that it was once a quality possessed by ancient political philosophers.

The best speeches are those which move from details of the case to broader categories.  To do this orators must mold and sharpen minds and even more importantly load the minds.  For oratory combines knowledge at hand with theoretical knowledge, knowledge of words, usage, history, moral philosophy. etc.  It used to be that anyone who wanted to be called wise embraced all areas.  Crassus emphasizes that we need to get back to that.

Crassus cites examples  of those who put their great learning at the service of the state.  He cites Nestor in the Iliad, the Seven Wise men.   All but one were leaders of their community.

Back to distinction- words are selected for sound and suitability.  There are two types of words:  new/unusual and metaphors.  In the beginning poverty of words promoted use of metaphors.  But now the idea an orator has in mind is virtually seen by the listener when metaphors are used.  Metaphor also aids brevity.  Keep in mind that the minds eye is drawn more easily to things that we have seen than to those we have heard of.

Word placement:   Words must come in such a way to create meaning but also establish a cadence.  This makes a speech flow.  The end of one word should not clash with beginning of the next. 

Word placement, sounds rhythm come together to create a period structure.  A whole sentence which is complete in an of itself but part of the whole speech.  This came from ancients who felt that poetic rhythm should be adapted to speech.

Cicero, I suggest , understood that the human mind is designed for and delights in feeling rhythmical patterns- a desire to hear them.  Humans look for order in sight and in sound.  Oratory combines both of these with words, metaphors and the other weapons it has at its disposal.

Catullus in a way sums up in another way what Cicero has labored so hard to say:  “The things that you are telling us are exactly what we want to hear- and not just to hear, but to hear them told the way you are telling them to us.  (Crassus words  in Latin Latin reflect the very principles Crassus has been setting down for appropriate speech.)

Cicero as I said before liked sculpture.  Look at the words he uses for a speech:  material, complexion, full, rounded, slender, vigor, force.  It is wise to keep this in mind when trying to understand Cicero or great writing in general.

No single style is appropriate.  That is why all aspects of oratory need to be understood, examined, practiced.  All the while embracing this with philosophy and refinement.  It takes art to do what is appropriate, it also requires natural ability.  To select what is appropriate requires intellect.

Crassus discusses the importance of delivery.  It is crucial.

Crassus calls actors imitators of reality.  Orators are involved with reality.  Crassus again is stating that the reality of what an orator does has a distinct advantage over imitation.

Crassus gives numerous examples of proper use of voice.  Almost all examples come from plays.  Discusses proper use of gestures.

De Orator combined with Orator covers much about oratory but also how to write.